A Conversation with NYU Alum Erin Yun, Author of Pippa Park Raises Her Game
Prefatory Note: This is an interview of Erin Yun, author of Pippa Park Raises Her Game and an alum of NYU’s very own English department, which also hosts this very editorial review. During her time at NYU, Erin served as the president of NYU’s debate team and later volunteered as a coach, giving up her personal time to travel with us and help coach students, even joining zoom calls during the pandemic. To learn more about Erin or her work, please visit pippapark.com.
This interview was conducted by Sai Karavadi, who is an editor at the Greene St. Review and also a personal friend of the author. Sai met Erin through their involvement with the NYU debate team, during which Erin even traveled with Sai and other students, so they were extremely overjoyed to reach out to Erin and conduct this casual, yet engaging interview. We hope you enjoy and are able to appreciate Erin’s work, advice for current students and emerging writers, and draw inspiration from her creative genius!
(The bolded font indicates when a question is being asked or any important information directed specifically at our readers from the interviewer.)
Sai: To begin, I wanted to ask about your first book, Pippa Park Raises Her Game. As college students here at NYU navigate their classes, there seems to be an intense focus on academic work in either classic English literature or critical theory, predominantly written by straight, white men. How did you come to decide to focus on a novel set in middle school that’s geared towards younger kids?
Erin: Right, all that’s very familiar from the start, but I always loved children’s literature. When I was a kid growing up, I’d read tons of middle grade books and then as I grew up, I just never really changed. I’m still totally hooked on just all kinds of children’s literature and in general, from the start, I knew that I wanted to write a middle grade novel.
However, Pippa Park Raises Her Game is actually kind of a retelling of Great Expectations by Charles Dickens, and one of the big themes of that book is self-improvement. Since middle school is such a time of immense growth and change, I thought a contemporary middle grade book inspired by that kind of plot offered interesting parallels to play with. It also allowed me to reset the book into a modern day environment and write through a protagonist that I personally really connected with. So yeah, I’ve always loved children’s literature and I think I really want to juggle all genres, but that’s kind of the one that’s really closest to my heart.
Sai: That definitely makes a lot of sense! It’s really hard for many English students here at NYU to feel represented in the readings that are on most of our syllabi. I guess somewhat along those lines, my next question is about Asian American and Pacific Islander representation. Many colleges and workplaces have reopened, with events happening in person around the country as well. But during the course of the pandemic, as a result of hate crimes and attacks against AAPI communities, many people began picking up more and more AAPI literature. We’re also beginning to see more AAPI representation in other forms of media, such as in television and film. Your own book is a great example of new stories that represent groups of people that have been underrepresented. But despite all that, there is also an increase in violence and hate. What do you think representation may look like in upcoming years and how do you think these stories may influence future generations of youth in our country?
Erin: That’s a really great question. I think that I’ll start with the first half of the question and the topic of representation. That’s definitely something I think a lot about, especially with critical theory, because that’s kind of where I’m writing. And while I don’t know exactly what it’s going to look like in the upcoming years. What I hope it looks like is simply just a lot of it because I think there’s sometimes pressure on creators to pick a specific, very accurate version of the community they are a part of, but that’s very hard, if not impossibly difficult. While there are plenty of things that are about, say, the Asian community as a whole, there’s thousands, even millions, of different experiences within that umbrella and so I think, to me, the best form of representation is simply having lots and lots of different Asian authors writing TV shows, books, and all the different kinds of pop culture that we have. I’m reading different genres, different stories, and different characters that confront that hate and violence, but also stories that act as escapism and everything in between too. I think that’s the best kind of representation to me, as much as possible I guess, over one specific vision for what that might look like.
In terms of how they may influence future generations — that’s also a very hard question and I love these two questions — but to me, the only thing I really think about when I personally write is my half-Korean side, which informs the protagonists in my book(s) that are also Korean. I think about how, when I was a kid looking at the bookshelves, I could rarely find other protagonists of children’s literature who were also Korean, but as I got older, I started to find middle grade novels. There was a joy I found in them and a wonder of recognizing parts of myself in somebody else’s writing, so I really just want other kids to also have those moments. And I hope that future generations of the youth are just able to find themselves much more easily in books all over the bookshelf, not just in a few, but everywhere and that’s what I hope our current moment culminates in for future generations. That might’ve been a little clunky so I apologize, but I think it’s because I feel like I struggle with the same things a lot in terms of finding myself in literature.
Sai: That was a great answer and I definitely relate! I feel like even when it comes to critical theory, I would look at things like Asian American literature and it would be hard to find works that were uniquely South Asian American or Southeast Asian American as well. For many immigrants — I moved to the US at a very young age — it would be really interesting to compare the experiences of people like us who are currently adults with a generation that grows up surrounded by a lot more representation.
Erin: Yes, that would hopefully be a healthier environment at least. I do just hope that we get to see that in our lifetime for the various groups of people who are underrepresented in literature and media. I was actually thinking of this graphic from a couple years ago, in which it showed that we are getting more diverse children’s literature, but if you really look at the chart, it’s still mostly more books about animal main characters rather than about any people of color. It’s a great infographics, but it shows that even though we are getting more, it’s just a drop in the bucket for now.
Sai: I feel like we’re also seeing some of the same thing happening with other industries and mediums too, with many incredible new movies and TV shows not receiving critical acclaim even amidst one of the most diverse awards seasons ever. It’s somewhat confusing to see how popular some shows are, whether it’s Squid Game or Never Have I Ever, not getting as many American awards perhaps simply because the only platforms that are prepared and willing to host that type of content are online streaming services like Netflix, which are typically not even eligible for most of those awards.
Erin: Wow, but yes! It definitely will be interesting to see how those trends change in the future and would be great to see a more global awareness in these industries. I’m not too familiar with awards ceremonies and shows, but I do think it’s interesting to see how people react to nominations and awards in the next couple years with such diverse programming coming out.
Sai: Yes, it’s really going to require us to remain vigilant, but I do feel hopeful thanks to efforts that people are making right now to change these trends and all the new diverse productions coming out.
However, before we get too much more sidetracked, let’s move on to my next question and get back to your book! One of my favorite parts of your book is the discussion questions for book clubs at the end that you provided. What led you to decide to include this and how do you think it augments young readers’ experience of reading your book?
Erin: I’ve actually seen this in a couple of books and growing up, I always loved the back materials because they help me draw more out of a book. The publisher was actually the one who helped put all that stuff together, although we collaborated too. I was really grateful that they loved my character enough to support her like that and go the extra mile to have a really nice discussion guide. So I guess I don’t have too much to say on that question, other than that I was just as excited as you to see all that material in the back and be able to look through it. It was really exciting to see both my writing and what other people thought of that writing within the same book.
Sai: I also wanted to ask about your trajectory getting to where you are, working with publishers and developing an incredible career for yourself as a writer. Only a couple years ago, you were an English major at NYU, and now you’ve got your novel and an accompanying journal out, a second novel on the way, and even the Pippa Park Author Program, as well as so much more. So what advice, if any, you would give to young writers and college students who are interested in a career as writers, given your experience.
Erin: That’s a great question! I actually think the advice I would give to college students is also the advice I give to the middle schoolers that I talked to during the Pippa Park events we held, which is basically that there are two secret parts to great writing. I’m kind of quoting Stephen King right now, but to become a great writer, I would suggest two things:
One, you have to write a lot, but to do that, you also have to read a lot, which is the second part. And that’s really important because reading is really what teaches you the skills of how to write because it teaches you what you like and what you don’t like, what experimental elements you want to try or what a good character might look like to you, and so on. When I started out writing novels, I think I spent about 80% of my time reading and then 20% writing, and I found that my writing was actually much stronger and more creative during those periods than when I spent 80% of my time writing and 20% reading. I think that refreshes the brain and inspires you, but also just helps you understand your own mind and mood while developing your vision of what a good flow or rhythm is.
So that’s my top level advice because I’m just writing in general and also just submitting everywhere. Take any opportunities you can and, as an English major, you have plenty of opportunities to get internships in publishing, such as reading for agents or working in editorial settings, and get exposed to all that literature and work style. Even if you maybe don’t want to stay in publishing forever, exploit every chance and just saying yes to as many experiences as you can while staying at NYU helps, including your own current work at the Greene St. Review.
Sai: That’s really reassuring, but also quite inspiring, given that it’s not often we get to see alumni who were in our position only a couple years ago being able to pursue their dreams as a writer out of college. And I think a lot of students in the department are worried about future job prospects, especially with the decline of professorship opportunities and the deep economic inflation we’re experiencing.
I also wanted to ask more about your interactions with middle schoolers. The Pippa Park Author Program seems incredible, especially since young kids get to meet and talk to a Korean American author like yourself, as well as the other writers that joined you. Earlier, I was also actually looking at the pamphlet you hand out to the kids and thought some of the concepts being talked about were really interesting, but also quite advanced. I feel like many people don’t really encounter these concepts or conversations about race and identity until college most of the time. How did you develop this program and tell us more about what you enjoyed in your interactions with these young kids and/or writers!
Erin: Yes, I just really loved going out to these schools and using the Pippa Park author program, which was something I personally developed while the first book was going to print. Since the book is actually a kind of retelling of Charles Dickens’ Great Expectations, one of the things we focused on a lot is dealing with copyright in the public domain. The public domain was actually something I really hadn’t heard of until college either, but it’s a pretty simple concept because it’s just basically that when a copyright expires on a book, it goes to public domain and then anyone can use it.
So I actually had a lot of fun workshopping with the kids because we talked about the concepts of retelling and what books you’re allowed to use inspiration from, and how that whole process works. And then, at the end of the program, we actually write our own retellings together and brainstorm what it could look like, which is definitely my favorite part. The kids are just so creative and they’re sometimes great and such motivated writers. They’ll even sometimes send me snippets from short stories they’ve done that they’ve been retelling and that’s always my favorite part; seeing their creativity shine through.
I also developed the program while thinking about how, as a kid, when I got to talk to authors who came to my school, I found them super interesting and I think that the freedom of creativity they represented was really fun.
I think another thing I loved was the Q&A segment at the end, which was the part where my marketing director would say to the teachers, “cut off Erin eventually,” because I would just answer questions forever. It’s always just so cute though to see what they’re thinking and I always love meeting young Korean kids too and seeing them get super excited over the book. They would tell me things like, “that’s my favorite dish too,” or talk about relating to the main character for the first time and that’s just another one of the things I love about all of this. While I was growing up, I would listen to a lot of K-Pop in school, but none of my friends would and it wasn’t something we would talk about with other people. But now, when I even mention the name, “BTS,” everyone around me knows exactly who and what I’m talking about, but the kids are also excited to connect with me over those types of things. It’s incredible to see how much things have already changed since the time when I was in middle school.
Sai: It’s really interesting to see how these kids engage in this and must be very inspiring to them. I also am thinking about how, in terms of retelling, many people in our generation reimagine characters in extremely popular books, such as how people reimagined characters from the Harry Potter series. I remember seeing the images of a young black Hermione and a brown Harry (who I interpreted as South Asian), but then with the movies (and I’m quoting Dylon Marron here), which run for a total of 1,207 minutes when combined, people of color speak for a total of about 5 minutes and 40 seconds. And now today, we’re seen J.K. Rowling’s pungent transphobia, which is very interesting because we somewhat grew up with these blockbuster book-to-film adaptations, partially due to the very success of Harry Potter and then later with the Hunger Games and Twilight film series.
Erin: I think what you’re saying is quite interesting because I think all the literature we have coming out now is definitely super exciting and amazing too. I just think one of the differences is that people haven’t flocked to just one book, because there’s no doubt that these books are all comparable in terms of quality. I think maybe our fandoms have actually been chopped up almost into thousands of different fandoms based on what parts of these books we each liked, many of which overlap in ways, despite also being distinctly unique. Unlike the books that are already in the public domain, it’s interesting with these texts because their copyrights will be in place for a long time, likely when most of the people that grew up reading these books are long gone.
However, the themes these books are hitting on aren’t super specific. Rick Riordan is actually super interesting, in terms of those popular young adult authors from our childhood, because he now has his own publishing imprint. He’s actually even publishing many different, diverse voices across the world that are retelling mythologies from everywhere, and they’re getting quite popular. I think the idea of retelling mythologies, for example, is always fair game because nobody owns them and the idea of having books about magic and witches are also an option. Even though you’re not exactly retelling those books, you can embrace the themes you loved as a kid and make them even better by making them your own.
So I think that intertextuality is something that I touched on sometimes, but I don’t usually use that word because, as a kid, that word really scared me. It has a lot of syllables and I didn’t quite understand it back then, but it’s very accurate to say that almost every book is responding to or talking to another book in some way, if we make those connections. And I think that’s kind of beautiful.
Sai: I think I would agree, especially because my favorite part about books is finding connections between what my peers and I each drew from reading a given text. It’s also very exciting to see how some of the authors we grew up with have been unrelenting in their drive to produce quality content for their readers across generations. I still remember reading Percy Jackson as a young kid and now my younger cousins get to read similar books in more cultural settings beyond just Greek or Roman or Egyptian mythology, but also with Indian and Korean mythology and protagonists.
However, my final question, which is also a follow up to my previous one, is about your exciting new book, Pippa Park Book 2 (this is a temporary replacement for the official title, which will be released with the book), which is set to come out in 2022. What could readers expect from this new development in Pippa’s life, if there is anything, even if only vaguely, that you can share with us!
Erin: I always feel so sad when this question comes up because it’s, of course, a prudent thing to ask, but I’m unfortunately not allowed to share almost anything except that, I turned in my last round of edits a couple of days ago, which is exciting. But I’ve been sitting on this for a while, which I think is one of the hardest parts of being an author. When I was a kid, I just assumed that you could tell everybody everything instantly, but everything in publishing, which I’m sure you’ve gotten a taste of, is somewhat slow and takes a lot of time. Sometimes, it’ll take almost a year and half before you’re allowed to even cryptically tweet about it. It’s always one of the hardest parts for me because I like to talk about everything and have somewhat of a “big mouth,” but that’s something you can’t do until your work has been published. So I really can’t say much except that I’m really looking forward to it and hope that people like it, and I’ll hopefully be able to talk more about that soon!
Sai: As a fan, I am very excited for a teaser, but that’s, of course, very understandable. I wonder if that also makes a lot of people’s lives really hard, especially for example, if certain people rely on collaboration or people around them for elements of their writing and creative process. I do wonder how that would work and I imagine you may also have struggled with this because, as you’re writing certain parts, you might want to ask someone, besides just your editor, what they think.
Erin: Well, the lucky thing is that you can tell people discreetly and I’m sure every publisher, whether with books or other mediums, knows that their writers and talent are only human, so it’s unlikely they won’t tell anyone at all whatsoever. However, we’re not allowed to say certain things in interviews or tweets, but I’m sure some writers email their friends in group chats and there’s a long, rich history of various writers around the world corresponding with one another over their writings in every genre and field. I’m sure I could text a group chat and poll everyone, maybe ask, “what do I do about this part,” if I don’t know what I really want to put in. For example, I wasn’t sure if I should name my main character Peppa or Piper when I was first writing it, so I was texting my friends to ask which one of them really rings to them before eventually just settling on Peppa even though they suggested something else. But I always do ask people those questions, whether or not I decide to follow their advice or base my work off their reactions.
Sai: That’s relieving, especially because I see myself as quite an interactive writer whose work is often informed by my interactions with other people and their thoughts as well, but it’s also very interesting to see how you’ve navigated that space.
I know that’s all the time you have and I’m really thankful that you gave up your time to let me interview you! It’s really exciting to know that someone who went to our school and who I was friends with through the NYU debate team was in my position, sitting in courses in the English department on Greene Street, but is now about to publish their second book, despite walking into a global pandemic almost right after graduation that even disrupted part of your book tour. I hope more and more people become familiar with your work and learn to appreciate the incredibly diverse array of new authors that have been creating and telling unique stories, especially with your next book on the way. Thank you again Erin for taking the time to let me interview you!
For our readers, if you would like to learn more about Erin or Pippa Park, please visit: pippapark.com, where you will find more information about both the first book and the upcoming release, as well as all of Erin’s incredible projects, such as the Pippa Park Author Program or activity kits for book clubs!