Check out our new interview with APH Alum Michael Gillen!

Interview with Professor Michael Gillen

A former merchant seaman, Professor Michael Gillen was later a maritime labor reporter, and an historic site curator. Gillen served as Program Director and Professor of Asian history at Pace University in New York. He also served as director of the project that preserved the Liberty Ship John W. Brown as an operational World War II ship museum in Baltimore. He lives in Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania. His latest work, Merchant Marine Survivors of World War II: Oral Histories of Cargo Carrying Under Fire was published by McFarland in December of 2014. Professor Gillen will commence a national book tour on May 16 at the Independence Seaport Museum in Philadelphia at 2 P.M.

• How did you first become interested in Public History?

When I first started out, I wasn’t aware that what I was doing was called “Public History.” I spent a significant amount of time conducting oral history interviews of farm workers in Georgia. I was working as the curator of an agricultural historic site and I undertook to interview people who were associated with the farmers in the area. I really enjoyed the process of interviewing. Subsequently, I worked at the South Street Seaport Museum and then the Seafarers Union in New York during which time I began a project interviewing individuals who had served as merchant mariners during World War II. I gained access to these individuals mostly through my work at the Union. These interviews comprise the basis for what would eventually become my recently-published book, entitled, Merchant Marine Survivors of World War II: Oral Histories of Cargo Carrying Under Fire. This book was a long-term project, many years in the making. By the time I applied to NYU’s Public History Program (which was being offered for the very first time) I had pretty extensive experience in the field.

How did you become interested in the Merchant Mariners?

In 1967, after my first year of college, I shipped out in the Merchant Marines because I really wanted to go to sea. I loved the experience of being at sea. I did this off and on for a while, but I was always drawn back to school. As a result of my time as a merchant seaman I met many people who had served during World War II. Many of these individuals had fascinating stories. I met people who had experienced their ships being torpedoed and encountered all kinds of dangers. I was so interested in the stories they told that it planted the seeds for this book project.

• What has been the greatest challenge to working with oral histories?

The greatest challenge in conducting oral histories is learning how to be a good interviewer/listener. This skill came pretty naturally to me because I’ve always enjoyed listening to personal stories, but it is definitely crucial if one intends to work with oral histories. It is important to be loose and flexible enough in a way that allows the conversation to flow naturally and perhaps go in unexpected directions. Sometimes openings present themselves, which an interviewer had not anticipated, but if you adhere too closely to a script or preconceived ideas about what to ask, you can miss these opportunities. It can really be a challenge to allow a conversation to flow and go where it will and must.

• What has your career trajectory looked like?

My involvement with the NYU Public History Department opened many doors for me professionally. During my studies at NYU I was introduced to the chair of the History Department at Pace University in 1987. Shortly after I began working at Pace as an Adjunct instructor. I then began work as Program Director of a program designed to help under-prepared students successfully complete their first year of college. This position required a PH.d., which I had completed in 1991. So my association with NYU’s Public History Program really helped me get established and I believe, made me a better historian as well. The training with outstanding professors really molded me into the historian I became.

• What was the subject of your doctoral dissertation?

Because I was a member of NYU Public History’s founding class, we were given the option of writing a traditional dissertation, without a public history feature. My dissertation was entitled, “Roots of Opposition: The Critical Response to US Indochina Policy, 1945-1954.” I completed this traditional dissertation in 1991. Other students in the program either wrote a traditional dissertation or something in conjunction with a public history project.

Have you had any mentors working in the field who influenced you?

At NYU, my dissertation adviser Marilyn Young influenced my work very much. And I was a teaching assistant in her Vietnam course. I was inspired by her courses and guidance. I also greatly appreciate Professors Paul Mattingly and Daniel Walkowitz for their guidance and support.

• What are your words to live by?

Be interested in the stories that people have to tell. Stories are where our history really comes from. The history of presidents and CEOs are not necessarily the most important, rather, the history of the common folk working on the front lines, represent the best stories. So I would say be a good listener and share those stories with others in the process by various means. That is after all the essence of Public History.

What advice would you give current students embarking on a study of Public History?

Get out there, get out there. Meet and learn from others doing the work, and let them know what you are doing. This in turn often leads to other opportunities for continuing work in the field, and teaching history in so many ways—both beyond and within academia.

About the Book:

Michael Gillen’s fascinating new book, Merchant Marine Survivors of World War II: Oral Histories of Cargo Carrying Under Fire (McFarland) draws on oral history interviews to tell the generally little known and understood story of the civilian merchant mariners.  The author provides us with detailed accounts of the heroic acts of World War II’s unsung heroes, the brave men who often did engage directly in combat at sea while providing armaments and crucial supplies to those on all battlefronts of the war.  By letting the interviewees speak with their own voices, Gillen provides a vivid portrait of the adventures and hardships encountered by merchant mariners on the open sea, and in some cases as prisoners of war.   This book provides us with lively accounts of those who experienced being torpedoed by enemy bombs and takes us step-by-step through the shock, explosions and fear that ensued.  This book will be of interest to anyone interested in military history, the history of World War II, American history and to all those curious about the past.